We’re on this planet to connect with others and find ways to add value. In the end, that’s all you leave – the vibrations in the moments you’ve been connected and present with other human beings.
Every marketer and business owner strives to make new connections everyday. After all, relationships are important in life. Relationships help you get new customers, improve customer experience, and build up your brand. That’s why managing customer relationships is a vital part of your business.
In a hyper-connected world, relationships can be easily formed, and you need a great tool to be able to manage all of them. However, you also need it to be personal and human rather than automatic and robotic. So, how do you combine the two and use a tool that makes the process easier but at the same time keeping the relationship real and authentic?
In this episode, Jon Ferrara shares his story on how he built Nimble, a CRM that helps you build better customer relationships. He gives a distinction between customer reporting management tools and customer relationship management tools. Learn the difference and what you actually need for your business.
Jon Ferrara is a serial entrepreneur and noted speaker about social, sales and marketing. He has re-imagined CRM by building Nimble – The Simple CRM for Office 365 & G Suite.
Jon is best known as the co-founder of GoldMine Software Corp, one of the early pioneers in the Sales Force Automation (SFA) and Customer Relationship Management (CRM) software categories for Small to Medium-sized Businesses (SMBs).
He has been recognized by Forbes as one of the Top 10 Social CEO’s, Top 10 Social Salespeople in The World and Top 100 Marketing Influencers.
01:16 – Introduction
02:06 – What does a B2B Digital Marketer need to be thinking about today?
03:17 – About Jon Ferrara and Nimble
05:58 – The difference between the different types of CRMs
11:08 – How to stay top-of-mind in a digital world
16:11 – How to get heard from the noise
18:56 – Nobody likes to sell and nobody likes to be sold to
20:21 – How Nimble works
24:49 – Story of GoldMine
29:39 – Jon’s goals
32:02 – Fundamentals a B2B Digital Marketer should have
37:10 – Connect with Jon Ferrara
“That’s why we’re on this planet – to connect with others and find ways to add value. In the end, that’s all you leave – the vibrations in the moments you’ve been connected and present with other human beings.”
“In today’s over-connected, over-communicated world, it’s easy to be forgotten.”
“The best way to stay top-of-mind with your prospects, your customers is to give your knowledge away. Become their trusted advisor.
“Stop selling, nobody wants to be sold. People don’t buy great products, they buy better versions of themselves.”
Episode Links and Resources
Nimble website: https://www.nimble.com/
Jon’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonvferrara
Jon’s email: [email protected]
Digital activity ROI assessment: https://b2bdm.com/digital-activity-roi/
More episodes related to relationships: https://b2bdm.com/ethan-beute/
Episode TranscriptClick to access unedited transcript
Jim Rembach (00:00):
Okay. B2B DM gang. I’m excited about the guests that I have on today because we’ve already had some good reflective discussion that we’re going to bring on the show to you. I have Chris Richards with me. Hey Chris. Thanks for joining us today.
Chris Richards (00:13):
Hey, Jim. Good to be here. Thanks for having me.
Jim Rembach (00:15):
Uh, I’d like to ask you a question really, before we get into the meat of our discussion and that is what should a B2B digital marketer be asking themselves today?
Chris Richards (00:27):
Oh, wow. Um, I would say they should be asking themselves, who am I and what do I stand for?
Jim Rembach (00:38):
Okay. So when you say that, I start thinking about the whole Simon Sinek, why? And, you know, um, we, we, we’ve kind of, that’s been very popularized. We keep hearing about purpose. We keep hearing about those things, but if you put it in context of somebody who is a coach or consultant, uh, an entrepreneur or, you know, small business or within us, within one of those organizations, how does that, you know, really relate to them?
Chris Richards (01:03):
Great question. Um, so I would, uh, first of all, reflect, uh, I love Simon Sinek. I think he’s amazing. Um, and a great many people talk about, um, you know, start with why have a big, why know your why and all this kind of stuff, and that’s fine. But if you notice that’s not what I said. I said, no, who you are, um, not your wise. It’s a S it’s a, there’s a subtlety, but it’s a different question. And the reason why I make a point of that straight off the bat is because having a big, why does work for some people when it’s their natural values, uh, to have a big why to have a big goal, you know, change the world. They are genuinely that way inclined. But what I’ve found is, especially in personal development and the B2B world is people who try to force it.
Chris Richards (01:55):
People who watched the Simon Sinek or read the books, um, or anything like that, and try to force themselves into the container or the mindset that they know air quotes should be, um, always end up in trouble. Uh, and they, they, because they, by doing that, they forgotten who they are. Uh, and the, uh, something we spoke about just before we hit the record button was, uh, an observation that I’ve made is at the, uh, just beginning stages, the very small business. And it just started to grow. Um, most entrepreneurs, coaches, consultants will, um, learn from others. They will compare to others. They will, you know, swim in the sea of sameness. Um, and you know, they don’t quite know what their message is, but they know they need to be special in order to be seen. And so they’re kind of forcing it a lot of the time.
Chris Richards (02:53):
Um, but they’re using other people’s templates. The, you know, the famous one is the, I help X to do Y so they can said in order to one, two, three, um, you know, things like this that we commonly see on social media and, and, and the, like, it’s only the ones who really break away from the park, the ones who, um, anyone listen to this, if they think about who they love to follow online, the podcast, they love to watch nine times out of 10, the differentiating factor is the person they are watching knows exactly who they are and owns it entirely. They know who they are, they know their strengths, they know their weaknesses, you know, names that come to mind, Richard Branson, Gary Vaynerchuk, Elon Musk, these people who know who they are, they know what they stand for. They know what’s important to them, and they’re not, they don’t need to look elsewhere to know what’s right for me, because they are trusting their own intuition and they are building on their own strengths. Um, so that’s where I would, I would kind of take that. Does that answer that question?
Jim Rembach (04:05):
It really does. And so for me, you know, when you start talking about that, for me, it’s a footing. Um, so you know, the whole self-discovery knowing who you are understanding your value system, and then also, you know, stepping into yourself. I, you know, it is really important. And then, but also understanding that when you do that, you are absolutely going to turn some people away.
Chris Richards (04:31):
Oh God. Yes. By knowing who you are in turn, you know, who you’d love to work with. And we’ve spoken about this previously as well, uh, in our preacher, um, the way I, the way I do business, the way I show up on podcasts, the way I do videos, the way I do everything is entirely based on who I am in order to reflect and magnetize who I love and those people who would love me without me trying, um, uh, quite good guiding principle on this is if you’re, if you feel like you’re trying, then you’re, you may not be entirely aligned. Um, if you’ve, if you’re trying too hard at any part of yourself, then you may not be entirely aligned and you may be trying to at least filter yourself. And this is what a lot of people do. They show up as like 90%, then 95% then with a 5% filter just in case.
Chris Richards (05:27):
I just want to make sure I don’t, you know, swear too much. I just want to make sure I don’t, whatever the way I, the way I love showing up. And that has taken me some time to get to this point is this is who I am. And it’s been reflected time and time again, um, by people who are shocked, quite frankly, they they’re like, Oh my God, like, you really are like this. Like, you really are the same person when you write in it. When you’re writing an article, you’re the same, it’s the same, the same message. And when you’re on a video and when the cameras are turned off and it’s just you and me talking you exactly the same. I’m like, yes, because this is who I am. And if you don’t like me for me is that is my unfair advantage.
Chris Richards (06:14):
A person’s unfair advantage is themselves. Um, I could bring somebody, I was speaking to a client this morning, actually about this. And one of her fears was what if I bring someone in, they learn how I do business, and then they go away and replicate it. I said, that’s, that’s unfounded. It can’t happen because no one can be you better than you. And so all they’ll do is, is create either they will create a watered down version that doesn’t quite resonate with who they are. And quite frankly, that’s to be pitied. Uh, because in, in the meantime, they’ll be comparing to you every two minutes and they’ll always be two steps behind, um, or they’ll take what you do, what they like about you and make it their own. In which case it’s not, you it’s them. And they’re making it their own. And in a sea of abundance, that’s no problem.
Chris Richards (07:09):
And in a, in a world where everyone’s saying, be number one in your niche, you don’t have to, you could be a number 258, and you’re still be a millionaire. Like you don’t have to be number one in your niche in order to, to have a successful business. The idea is laughable, take, take any car manufacturer, any, any singer songwriter, anything in any other niche. And although there may be a drive to be number one, they don’t need to be, you know, the Lakers don’t have to be number one all the time. The, the New York next don’t have to be number one all the time. You know, Ford, uh, you know, Ford Lamborghini, Ferrari, which one is number one, it depends on the person who loves them, who connects with them, you know, highly Davidson drivers couldn’t give to what Wotsits about Ferrari. They don’t care. Generally I’m generalizing, but a Harley Davidson cause a Harley Davidson man, or woman is a Harley Davidson man or woman. And it’s that simple when you know who you are, you know, who your people are and when that connection is made, there’s very little that any competition air-quotes again, uh, can do about it because once they’re in love with you, they’re in love with you.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
You know what you say, a lot of people would step back and say, well, your shareholders wouldn’t agree with that. Um, you know, be number one, uh, and start thinking about all these things. Uh, you, you, you really have to put it in context of, you know, the smaller organization in the individual, maybe because when you start dealing with larger brand entities, it’s kind of like something that you and I had had chatted about a little bit where, you know, you need to find that alignment, you know, and that connection and that congruency. And, uh, it’s just not the same. I mean, so even when I start thinking about an individual, who’s a, you know, a solopreneur culture consultant, um, you know, there, there is a very different approach when you start talking about being able to build that brand and that authenticity. And I want to go back to something that you said in regards to abundance, because seems to me like there’s a hard wiring for a lot of folks when it comes to either feeling that there’s abundance or their scarcity, and trying to get people to move who are on that scarcity plane are part of the continuum is darn hard.
Chris Richards (09:32):
Well, if it wasn’t, I wouldn’t have a job, um, you’re absolutely right. Uh, because people, and again, I will ha I have to speak in general generalities. There we go. Um, because there is an exception to every single rule, but generally speaking, people don’t want to change. And they’re afraid of letting go of what’s known. And a lot of people’s idea of when they look up to someone, they make the mistake that, uh, there is a mistake in my mind that the status that the money, their followers, the fame, the whatever is some kind of reflection of who they are as a person. And that in itself is the first attachment that needs to be broken, uh, because no amount of money, whether you are completely poor or you are super wealthy, will ever prove that you are worthy to be loved and wanted. Um, and yet a lot of people, um, and of entrepreneurs come from a lot of charter trauma where they’ve learned to attach their wealth to achievement or to status or to some other metric, rather than SU rather than being able to just own that I am enough.
Chris Richards (10:56):
Uh, and it’s irrelevant what I have and what I’m doing and what I’ve achieved and what I could achieve and what people think of me. I am me, and I can own that. And very few people. And we talk about it as if it’s this easy concept. It’s, it’s easy to understand in part, but it’s certainly not easy to implement. Um, and it takes a lot of work. It takes a lot of courage and humility. If you don’t have courage and humility, there is no way of letting go of that scarcity, because it’s a scarcity that your mind thinks is keeping you safe. As long as I’m number one, I don’t have to worry about not getting clients because I’m number one. So clearly I must keep working to be number one. And what’s really happening. There is there are in that moment, um, tying themselves too much to the outcome, uh, not, and then they’re losing themselves because they’re tied so much to, I must get clients.
Chris Richards (11:50):
I must be number one. Um, you know, my, my shareholders are leaning on me. They, they, they need to see the profits going up, uh, and even entrepreneurs themselves, if they don’t go up and up and up and up and have, um, sustainability, predictability of income and all this kind of stuff, uh, if they don’t have that, they think there’s something wrong. And actually in almost every business, there’s going to be troughs and there’s going to be peaks and jet the general direction is you want it to be going up, but it’s not going to be up month on month, very rarely. And if it is then half the time, it’s a bubble. Um, so it’s, it’s to be very careful with when it comes to growth that the sustainability is being built in with it, and you’re not just growing for the sake of growth. Um, so across quite a lot though. So feel free to, to ask anything on any part.
Jim Rembach (12:44):
Well, there, there is a lot to unpack there. Um, and you know, I start thinking about the one, uh, or the folks. Um, I mean, well, like, even, even just speaking for myself personally, I mean, I have filters that I’m putting on myself all the time, you know, for various reasons. I mean, I, you know, I grew up with three brothers, uh, in, uh, in a suburb of Chicago that was more blue collar. Um, you know, it was more of a survival, you know, uh, you know, scenario more so than it was, you know, anything, anything else when you were, were out on the streets? I mean, yes, we had good friends and yes, we felt safe and, and everything else, but, you know, there’s a whole lot of things that are associated with that, that you act and behave and it becomes ingrained. And then you take that out on the workplace that people are like, Whoa, Hey, you know, um, you know, I, I come with passion, you know, I, I love to help people. Um, you know, as part of part of the, the filter is being able to, you know, tone down so that people can connection and really see that I do care, you know, and then you throw this whole, I’d like things to move quickly scenario. Um, and I also, don’t like to do the same thing over and over again, because, you know,
Chris Richards (13:56):
That’s a standard entrepreneurial trait just dislikes anything more than once or twice, twice maximum. Um, and that’s why entrepreneurs make terrible studios. Um, and they make terrible COO’s, um, absolutely terrible. Uh, because what happens is people live. I tell you a very, very common trait that a lot of entrepreneurs follow is they have too much of an attachment to intensity and not enough comfort with intimacy, and they have too much connection and attachment to attention and not enough to intrinsic worth. And because they’re leaning too far in for intensity and attention, they tend to live through, pardon me, they tend to live through their, and when the business starts getting air quotes, boring, um, that being predictable and it’s growing and growing and growing, but there’s no kind of intensity anymore. There’s no the grind, they’re not the hustle. They’re not pushing pressure Christian. They started to get bored.
Chris Richards (15:07):
And when I start to get bored, they start to break, right. Things, and they start to make themselves the single point of failure. Yeah. I see that a lot in six and seven figure businesses, they put themselves as that CEO, they put themselves as the main point of sales. They put themselves as the main, uh, team manager. And then, and then of course they don’t have any time because they rushing around and when they don’t have any time, they get burned out when they get brought into the business, it’s almost like I know my audience. Um, um, so yeah, in, in the sea of sameness, the way I come in, the way I come through who is the, is this, like, I get it, I get the thoughts. I get the habits, like get a, what people are doing. But most importantly, I get why they’re doing it.
Chris Richards (16:00):
And I know how to change those, that configuration. And that is, uh, what I believe sets me apart because it’s part of who I am. Part of who I am is this ability to everyone is born with gifts, I believe. Uh, and especially if you’re in life has been such that you had to cultivate gifts in order to survive. Uh, as I said, a lot of entrepreneurs are born from trauma. I am no exception. Um, I had a great deal of trauma in my life. Uh, even though my, I call it well-intentioned trauma from my parents because they were well-intentioned, I wasn’t beaten, I wasn’t neglected. I wasn’t under the stairs. Like a Harry Potter thing. I was, I was given love. The difficulty came that weirdly enough, um, my parents or four of them, because they were remarried and, and separated remote, they all had something that they w they were dealing with themselves.
Chris Richards (16:58):
And that, that was projected in their parenting. Um, and as such, I had a major issue with connection. I had a major issue with intimacy, with trust, with autonomy. I got, uh, addicted to this ability to make people laugh. Um, you know, if I can make them laugh and I can entertain them, then they’ll want me there. Know all these kinds of safety mechanisms started to form my personality. Um, if I can spot when somebody is doing something and figure out why they’re doing it, I treated a lot of my social interactions as almost flowcharts. In fact, no, they weren’t being treated as flow chops. If the person does this, they either are thinking this or that. Um, if it’s thinking that then it’s probably of this and this, therefore my best effort would be to be doing this. I was really kind of flowcharting human behavior as a defense mechanism.
Chris Richards (17:58):
Uh, and the reason why I in doing that is I was so into my head because my body didn’t feel safe. This would take me 30 years to figure out by the way, uh, in the back on, but looking back my body, wasn’t a safe place to be. And so I went all the way into my head, generally speaking people in that regard go into their head, or they go into spirituality and they go so far out of their body. They become, what’s what people would refer to as ultra spiritual, Oh, the universe is guiding me and I’m safe because the universe has my back and it’s all the universe in this and that and the other. And, and that could be true. The challenge is always, how are you when you connect to your body? How does your body feel? And if they have an inability to know that and to, to, to connect with that, then it’s just, it just makes obvious that the only reason they’ve gone ultra spiritual is to escape that place, which is deemed unsafe, which is the body is themselves.
Chris Richards (18:57):
There’s quite a lot to unpack for a lot of people and different people will have different defense mechanisms and those defense mechanisms, they will then call ingrained, which is the word you used. I prefer to use well-practiced because nothing’s ingrained because you’re a new illogical, uh, neuroplasticity, which I know you know about. Um, I’ve got a feeling you dude, because you’ve got enough books on the subject behind you, um, uh, neuroplasticity, if you practice something often enough, it will become ingrained. But if you stop practicing it and you start doing something else, the, uh, new electrical link, a new neurological link is created, and the old one kind of dies away, it kind of falls away integrase. Um, sometimes not entirely, sometimes it’s just still there in the background, you know, I’m, uh, and this sounds like I’m doing the new thing. I’m doing the great habits, but every now and again, I get this feeling of going back to my old way.
Chris Richards (19:53):
Okay, well, that’s fine. You know, if it’s served you for that long to keep you safe, of course it won’t leave you. Of course it would be that like the, the ego and the identity will be that going. We’re just going to keep this defense mechanism here, just in case we weren’t quite far in the trash. We won’t be using it as a day-to-day plan, but we’re not getting rid of it either, and it will hold it and will keep it out the way, um, just in case it’s needed again. Um, so that happens sometimes.
Jim Rembach (20:22):
So we can sit here and we can talk about a lot of these different, you know, frameworks and thoughts and, you know, um, findings and, you know, outcomes. But ultimately you’re, you’re talking about it leading to revenue. I mean, you know, because you say, Hey, this is some of the, you know, barriers and, and humps and, you know, uh, you know, filters and caveats and excuses and whatever, whatever you want to call them, um, that are preventing. I don’t
Chris Richards (20:48):
Like to use the term excuses cause it causes shaman and labels and judgments, but yes, yes, please.
Jim Rembach (20:55):
That’s good. I mean, you know, and, and I think all, all of this ultimately co is supposed to culminate into that. I am, you know, um, reaping the benefits from all of this effort and activity and awareness, um, and new behaviors. And, and then, um, being able to scale and grow my business, even if I’m working in an organization, you know, and I’m responsible for either marketing or sales. I mean, whatever the case may be is it’s, it’s still all part of the same, you know, ultimate outcome that I I’m delivering more value. And then therefore I’m getting compensated for that value. And that happens at a faster rate, more so than otherwise.
Chris Richards (21:39):
Yes, absolutely faster, but not just faster, not just faster, easier. Um, what I see a lot of people doing is they start growing their income. This is where it becomes more practical. Um, they start growing their income, they start making bigger office, uh, approaching more companies, you know, all this kind of stuff. And we briefly touched on this in the preacher. You can only stretch the identity so far. Uh, and what I mean by this is if you could imagine a zero setting, an ego, zero setting, if you were to then wait, let’s, let’s make it white and then we’ll make it money and you’ll make a lot more sense. Uh, you gain weight, you put on some, a bit of extra belly or a bomb, let’s say that takes you to a minus one and one down from where you believe you should be.
Chris Richards (22:36):
Yeah. Okay. Some people are having a little bit of weight on them and it doesn’t affect them too much, but it’s, they, they start to become conscious of it. Let’s say it continues and they continue to gain weight. Now they were minus two. Now it’s like, Oh, you start to get that all feeling, Oh, I really should do something about this. This is, this is definitely not normal. Um, and this all makes sense when we kick it over to money, let’s say it continues to get worse. And eventually you get to that monitor history, which is like, ah, there’s no way I’m so far from where I believe I should be, that they don’t always work in that way. But it’s this feeling of I’m so far from where I should be. Something has to be done. Not another minute, no another second. And then you’re Oh, and you’re in action. And the ego prompts you into action gives you that inspiration, motivation, whatever you want to call it. And you start taking action. And then you start monastery minus three to minus two, minus two to minus one.
Chris Richards (23:44):
As you approach zero, if you don’t have a plan for what you’re going to do after zero plus one, plus two plus three is treated the same as the minus figures. It’s still moving away from the zero. Yeah. So if you don’t have a plan for when you reach zero and beyond, what people tend to do is they start slacking off on their diet. I’ll just one biscuit I’m doing so well. Just one cake, just one Africa, just one thing, just one drink. And then they start going down again, minus two minus three. Oh my God. I’m minus three. Again, I’m not smoke control, blah, blah, blah, time to get back into action minus two. And that is literally what’s happening when someone is yo-yo dieting. What I tend to see in entrepreneurship is they yo-yo income. They yo-yo income diet, which is, they do the opposite.
Chris Richards (24:43):
On the other side, they’ll either go, um, they’ll have this mentality of what should be in my bank account at the beginning. And at the end of the month, what should be in the business bank account with a bit of business online, if some entrepreneurs, they tend to use that the account, unfortunately as their own personal piggy bank. Um, and they don’t separate it, but they have an idea of what generally should be there at the beginning. And what generally should be that at the end, a lot of entrepreneurs take it to zero at the end of every month, which is a mistake in my mind. Um, or whatever zero is for them. You know, plus 2000 could be their zero Mark. Um, what it is is irrelevant. It’s what the person believes is normal.
Chris Richards (25:33):
If they go below that Mark, they start in the U-shape feeling and it pumps them into action. But if you go too far above the Mark up plus one, you’re like, Oh, this is nice. I’m I’m above where life would be. This is lovely. What a lovely thing I have. It’s not quite what I have normally is just above and I’m feeling good. And then they have, plus two, they have an extra 10,000 and I should have 20,000. The number is irrelevant. It’s all individual based hundred thousand. It doesn’t matter, but they are a little bit further away from where they are. Normally. This is where the problems stop generally. And they start feeling resistance. They start losing motivation. When otherwise they had loads of motivation. They start losing passion for things they used to enjoy. They, uh, and the body is what is doing is it’s auto correcting the same as if they’d gone into the minus figures, it’s auto correcting.
Chris Richards (26:34):
It’s saying this doesn’t feel right, and you’re getting further and further and further away from what feels right. So we’re going to add more and more resistance and rather than changing their baseline identity, their baseline ego, uh, of what is normal, um, that just keep pushing and keep pushing and keep pushing. And then what tends to happen is they burn out or they, um, their passion burns out. Their motivation burns out or worse. And I’ve seen people do this from seven figure businesses. They will blow up the entire business. They’ll just crush it to the ground and start from scratch, or they’ll think one of the wonderful time to start something new. Um, and they’ll get this impulse to do something, but the result of that impulse, the result of that action, um, does this previous bank account so that they’ll stop making offers. They’ll, they’ll stop making offers.
Chris Richards (27:32):
They’ll stop putting themselves out there. Um, they’ll stop showing up on nine until it becomes closer and closer to that zero Mark again. And until someone changes and changes, although that is a good word, but, um, evolves their sense of self to go up with the results. So as the money goes up, you are climatized to that new level. And now if the money goes back down to what it was a year ago, now it’s not zero now it’s minus one. Yeah. And then you update your, evolve, your mindset again. And if your money goes back down to what it was a year ago, now it’s not minus one is minus two. Um, and your ego starts working for you rather than against you. The difference, like I said, when it comes to revenue is not about how fast it happens and how easy it happens and this idea that it has to be this grind and we have to force our way through is just wrong. Um, and, and it doesn’t have to be that way. And that’s that’s okay.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Okay. So then wait a minute. So I think this is a really important part because I mean, I mean, what you’re saying to me is, like you said, it’s common. Um, but you’re saying it’s counterintuitive, but I mean, I, I think for me, a lot of the things that you hear repeated again, um, is that you have to be able to let have something that is a system that is successful and that can be repeatable so that it can be scalable. I mean, we hear that over and again, yes.
Chris Richards (29:11):
That’s tactical. Yes. But what people tend to do is they avoid making the system so they can keep themselves a single point of failure. Interesting. So what we’re talking about is just a whole mishmash of self-sabotage yes. Entirely, entirely. Yes. Um, I, the reason why I don’t tend to use the terms like self-sabotage is first and foremost, because people are deaf to it. Uh, they’ve had it so many women times that they hear it. It’s just another word it’s lost meaning. So what I tend to do is what I’ve just not, which is I describe it to you and allow you to self identify and go, Oh, crap. That’s exactly what I’ve been doing. Oh, every time it’s going really well. I changed my niche. I changed my avatar. I changed my offer. I’m not doing the same offer over and over again. And it ties into this entrepreneurial trait of not doing the same thing more than once I did a post the other day, I got a good laugh.
Chris Richards (30:12):
Um, I said, insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result unless you’re an entrepreneur. And the thing you’re doing over and over again is actually a really good strategy. And then it’s not insanity, then it’s consistency. And it’s the one thing that people are missing. They’re unable to do the same thing over and over again, because to do that is to take them away from themselves. And it was far, and the further they take away from themselves, the more uncomfortable they are, a lot of people would say, I’m comfortable with discomfort. No, you’re not. You’re comfortable with chaos. You’re very uncomfortable with Tom. And that is the problem. If people are not comfortable with calm, they break things for no reason they don’t need to.
Jim Rembach (30:58):
Okay. So for me, and a lot of the people that I work with there, I often find that there aren’t, you know, the systems in place that enable success. So if I start talking about, you know, revenue and revenue generation and growth, I mean, when, when you start talking about how to be able to capture, you know, a lead, you know, thinking about top of the funnel, being able to move them to the middle of the funnel and get them to the bottom of the funnel, uh, they, there’s no system in place in order to be able to do that. Um, and, and, and so, so then I start wondering, like, you’re saying, is they, have they not put that in place? Or why have they not put that in place? Right. Because that’s kind of core and critical. I mean, because if you don’t have that mechanism, I mean, here’s the, we have all seen this happen.
Jim Rembach (31:47):
And let me give this scenario. I mean, you know, we, we see this company just growing like gangbusters, and then, you know, we become part of their customer group customer mix. And you’re like, well, what they’re offering just, this is not really all that glamorous, but yet they’re growing like gangbusters and everybody thinks it’s great. And then we’ve also what I see mostly is the opposite side is these companies aren’t growing, but yet they have the most fantastic product because they don’t have the sales and marketing machine in order to be able to drive it.
Chris Richards (32:20):
I will go one further, a lot of entrepreneurs and experts look at people who are, um, you know, air quotes again, because this is so generalized, but above them, beyond them, further on whatever your term is. And they say, how are they getting so much success when giving something that’s so simple case in point Simon Sinek start with why seems like a simple concept. How is he getting so much success? Um, Mel Robbins, one, two, three, four, five, do it. That seems so self evident that she on paper should not be successful. Even though if you actually follow her on Instagram. I love Mel Robbins. I think she’s fantastic. Um, once you get beyond that, you realize that actually her depth of knowledge goes a lot deeper. What these people have figured out is what a lot of entrepreneurs, especially when they start out, don’t get it.
Chris Richards (33:17):
They just don’t get it. They’re meeting people with this need to prove how smart they are. They’re meeting people saying, if I give you this really amazing, wonderful, incredible thing that completely solves your problem, you’ll buy it from me. And that is just, does not fit human psychology. Generally speaking, humans will not do that because if you give someone that, then the only reason they can fail is if they themselves are not good enough and they show us how not going to leave themselves open to that risk. Generally speaking, the ones who are really kind of cutting away and, and, and getting the leads and getting them to, to the point where they are open to go in the next step. I don’t, I’m not a believer in make the funnel and move them through the funnel. I’m more a believer in show them the path and give them the trigger points to say, if you’re ready, step across.
Chris Richards (34:15):
If you’re ready, step across. A lot of entrepreneurs think that if they build a funnel, it pushes someone’s mindset through the funnel. It’s just not the case. That’s manipulation. Um, and it half the time results in a buyer’s remorse. A lot of the time when you’re forced to make a decision that you weren’t ready to make nine times out of 10, you’re going to get buyers from us, uh, in my experience, um, uh, creating a journey. Absolutely, absolutely right. Step of the journey where people are doing it really well is they only have the first step. Do you want to know one thing, one thing that will give you a result, I won’t pay one thing and then I’ll take the one thing. And if the one thing is good, they’ll be like, Oh yeah, that was really good. That really worked for me. What else have you got? And it allows them to move to you through curiosity, as opposed to you chasing them and trying to pull them through a funnel, which is why I see a lot of coaches, consultants, entrepreneurs doing is they’re trying to pull people through a funnel and manipulate and push them to influence them through a funnel when actually they, they they’ll get a lot better results and a lot more, um, uh, loyalty and trust equity by simply laying enough breadcrumbs and saying follow when you’re ready.
Jim Rembach (35:38):
Okay. So, I mean, to me, when you’re talking about that, I started thinking about something that, um, I talk about it a lot in regards to employee engagement and customer engagement, um, is, is really the difference in how you view, you know, your potential customers or prospects as, I mean, do you see them as objects, you know, or, or do you see them as assets? And if I see them as
Chris Richards (36:06):
[inaudible] people, can we, can, we can, we, I would love to see more businesses, see their customers as human beings that have other things on, not because we as experts and we as business owners, our businesses on life, it’s our lifeblood. It’s the most important thing in our lives. And we make this assumption that it should be the most important things in our customer’s life as well. Uh, just isn’t the case. So to treat a customer and a client as a human being who has kids who are pulling on them like to do homework, and the school is, is calling them two times a day and their car’s just broken down and, uh, you know, life is happening. And you’re just a piece of it where coaches and consultants insist on being the biggest piece is where they go wrong, because they’re like, no, no, treat me as the it’s like being a needy partner. It’s like, treat me as the important one, but you’re not the important one. My child is the important one. My partner is the important one. God forbid, I’m the important one. You business are not the important one.
Jim Rembach (37:14):
Well, and, and that is part of the value mindset. So it’s like, I value you as a person, as an individual, as someone who has, you know, all of the things that you’re talking about, you know, versus an object who I need to, you know, manipulate, you know what I mean? But we do in this world most definitely have to do a very good job of, you know, influence and persuasion. I mean, we, we have to deploy those and how we do it, you know, text. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Chris Richards (37:42):
Because I mean, some, some people use the, uh, the timers, the countdown timers, the, um, uh, some people do incentives. Some people do, you know, those little pop-ups, you know, Doris in new Orleans just bought it, Oh, bill in New York just bought it, this person. And what a, and there’s, pop-ups keep coming up. Uh, and what that does is it creates this, uh, social, uh, reinforcement to say, all these people are doing it. And it, it creates FOMO if you’re open to FOMO, uh, here’s the important part, which is why I come back again to know who you are, know who your people are and know what you stand for and what you stand against. Because I go onto those sites. I instantly turn them off. I have never, in the last three years, I think I have never once. So I’ve just got some pop-ups.
Chris Richards (38:34):
Um, I have once stayed on a site that has a countdown timer or a pop-up in any way, I don’t stay there because not only am I not, um, uh, not only do I not resonate with those tactics, but they, they actively turn me off because it tells me that the person is, is off to somebody who can be manipulated and who can be, uh, influenced in that way. That ING said, that is my level of consciousness. If the person is in a state of consciousness where they are, as we talked about living in scarcity, no judgment whatsoever, that person goes on the site. That tactic works very, very, very, very, very, very, very well. So the question again is who do you want if you, if that person wants those people then great, they’re using exactly the right tactics to use if their own, if they want to attract people who don’t have any trust in themselves and don’t have any faith in themselves and maybe their product and service is to give them those things.
Chris Richards (39:45):
But in order to give them those things, they have to lead them through the door. Fine. Great, brilliant. As long as they’re ethical in their approach. Fantastic. That’s fine. The only difference between manipulation and influence is your intent. If your intent is me, me, me, then it’s manipulation. If it’s influence, if, if it’s, I want you to win and by you winning, I get to win too. So I’ll just put all the emphasis on you to make sure you win as much as humanly possible. Then it’s influence if it’s I need to win. So make sure you give me your money. No, come on. Let me tweak your brain so you can give me your money. Then it’s manipulation because you’re doing it for you. And you’re not doing it for them. Really? No, Chris Richards. That’s why I have been on the show because I want you successful.
Chris Richards (40:30):
I’m doing it for you. I’m here because I want to help you. And, and when you get those partnerships, it works beautifully when we joke. But that is why I come on the show. We said before, and you you’ve made a point. You asked me, what do you have to sell? What do you have to offer? Um, I’m not, that’s the point when you show up in that kind of, I’m going to give value. You’re going to give value. And the people that we’re after are of the mindset, where they are perfectly happy saying, Oh, these people aren’t going to try and maneuver me. These people are just here giving me value. And they’re going to trust me as a human being to make my own decisions. That, to me, builds way more faith than way more trust, which builds a longer term relationship than any countdown timer.
Chris Richards (41:23):
Well, but again, but again, though, we want to work with all of you because we want you to be successful. I mean, and that’s the thing we wouldn’t help. We’d love to help people before they’re ready, but not before someone’s ready. If someone is goes before, they’re ready. This idea of create the funnels and move them through your funnel. I don’t move someone through my funnel. I asked them, are you ready for the next step? If you’re ready for the next step, take the next step. If you’re not stay where you are, enjoy where you are. You know, here’s some other things at your level or your level of awareness at your level of receiving. Here’s some stuff that you’re ready for. Not everyone’s ready at the same pace. People will come in, come in, they’ll, they’ll meet. You they’ll know you and be like, Holy. This is the kind of person I’m been looking for for so long. I am ready. Let’s do it. And they’ll, they’ll, they’ll be on the phone that day. Other people they’ll be like, send me your YouTube link. Can you send me your PDF? I’ll sit with it. Maybe I’ll read it. Maybe I won’t until a month later. Um, and they’ll just go through slower and that’s okay. And it’s this mentality of not treating every customer. Like they’re the same understanding everyone is going through their own journey.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
That’s true. And the same thing happens with the B2B buyers. So even, even in the B2B buyer, is yes, the human to human. Absolutely. But there’s also in a business environment. A lot of times there’s more decision makers. So the dynamics get very, very complex, very, very quick. Um, and I think all these things are critically important. So in order for us to wrap here today, I think it’s important to say if I was trying to sell to another business and I was, you know, I’m an entrepreneur, I’m a small business. I was a coach or consultant, you know, w why do I have to make sure that I’m doing today, that you know, or tomorrow, um, that I have not been doing at this point,
Chris Richards (43:28):
The more concerned with their bottom line and their best interests than you are with your own.
Speaker 3 (43:35):
Chris Richards (43:36):
Walk through the door, that energy, the energy you give off, when you are genuine, genuinely more concerned with their bottom line and their results than you are with your own, um, you get it back a hundred times over because people will feel that, especially at the higher levels,
Speaker 3 (43:53):
Chris Richards, I had fun with you today. Can you please share with the B2B DM gang, how they can get in touch with you?
Chris Richards (43:59):
Absolutely. Um, atomic growth, not code at UK is the website. Um, if you do come to me, uh, and, and download my stuff, uh, through this podcast, please mention that it was Jim that, uh, it was through Jim that you, uh, discovered me, uh, very much appreciate that. Uh, but atomic growth.co.uk, or find me on Instagram or, um, or Facebook, uh, it’s super easy. Chris Richards, atomic growth. You will find me because you put those words together and I will come up straight away. I guarantee you,
Speaker 3 (44:34):
Yeah. Chris Richards, thanks for sharing your knowledge and wisdom, and we wish you the very best. Thank
Chris Richards (44:39):
You so much for having me, Jim, really appreciate it.